Comments on: The Throne in the Basement http://decipherment.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/the-throne-in-the-basement/ A Weblog on the Ancient Maya Script Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:30:07 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: David Stuart http://decipherment.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/the-throne-in-the-basement/#comment-220 David Stuart Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:45:23 +0000 http://decipherment.wordpress.com/?p=258#comment-220 Hi Marta, There's no actual two-headed throne from Palenque, as far as I know. The remnant that you were told about from the House of the Tiger (aka Temple of the Jaguar Throne, aka Temple of the Beau Relief, etc) is actually just a stucco representation on the back wall -- all that is left of an important royal portrait that Waldeck recorded in the 19th century, now mostly all gone. But presumably such a two-headed throne did actually exist and may still be buried be somewhere. We can probably assume that Pakal made use of such a seat on his actual accession in 615 AD, as shown on the Oval Tablet, but where? In an earlier Palace, perhaps? Or maybe at another place altogether? Given the political turmoil Palenque's dynasty was dealing with at the time it's very hard to say. Hi Marta, There’s no actual two-headed throne from Palenque, as far as I know. The remnant that you were told about from the House of the Tiger (aka Temple of the Jaguar Throne, aka Temple of the Beau Relief, etc) is actually just a stucco representation on the back wall — all that is left of an important royal portrait that Waldeck recorded in the 19th century, now mostly all gone. But presumably such a two-headed throne did actually exist and may still be buried be somewhere. We can probably assume that Pakal made use of such a seat on his actual accession in 615 AD, as shown on the Oval Tablet, but where? In an earlier Palace, perhaps? Or maybe at another place altogether? Given the political turmoil Palenque’s dynasty was dealing with at the time it’s very hard to say.

]]> By: Marta Barber http://decipherment.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/the-throne-in-the-basement/#comment-219 Marta Barber Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:11:16 +0000 http://decipherment.wordpress.com/?p=258#comment-219 I am the President of the Institute of Maya Studies, an affiliate of the Miami Science Museum. It is interesting to me that the Oval Tablet shows Janab Pakal on a two-headed jaguar throne. You wirte that the Del Rio throne has inscriptions confirming a later day. And that probably an earlier "table" throne (now in the subterraneos) was moved as new kings took office. Where is that two-headed jaguar throne? Did Pakal receive his major-drum headdress from his mother on such a throne? I was once told that remnants of that throne were found in the House of the Tiger. Does that mean that Pakal's ceremony with his mother was held there? I only recall a two-headed jaguar throne in Uxmal's plaza facing the House of the Governor. Do you know of any others? I am the President of the Institute of Maya Studies, an affiliate of the Miami Science Museum. It is interesting to me that the Oval Tablet shows Janab Pakal on a two-headed jaguar throne. You wirte that the Del Rio throne has inscriptions confirming a later day. And that probably an earlier “table” throne (now in the subterraneos) was moved as new kings took office. Where is that two-headed jaguar throne? Did Pakal receive his major-drum headdress from his mother on such a throne? I was once told that remnants of that throne were found in the House of the Tiger. Does that mean that Pakal’s ceremony with his mother was held there?

I only recall a two-headed jaguar throne in Uxmal’s plaza facing the House of the Governor. Do you know of any others?

]]> By: Stephen Houston http://decipherment.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/the-throne-in-the-basement/#comment-195 Stephen Houston Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:58:35 +0000 http://decipherment.wordpress.com/?p=258#comment-195 I'm reminded -- although it's a remote analogy -- of the "blackened stools" of deceased chiefs and high-ranking lords among the Asante in West Africa: that is, the main emblem of rule is taken out of commission. It's intriguing that there are two throne fragments from Piedras Negras, clearly from destroyed or "disabled" thrones, along with the beautiful, full-figure throne fragments from Yaxchilan, hacked up as well. ...and yet other examples, at Dos Pilas and beyond. Thrones could invite the special ire of enemies, but perhaps a few of them were "deactivated" in ritual manner, to be processed in ways like this example from Palenque? I’m reminded — although it’s a remote analogy — of the “blackened stools” of deceased chiefs and high-ranking lords among the Asante in West Africa: that is, the main emblem of rule is taken out of commission.

It’s intriguing that there are two throne fragments from Piedras Negras, clearly from destroyed or “disabled” thrones, along with the beautiful, full-figure throne fragments from Yaxchilan, hacked up as well. …and yet other examples, at Dos Pilas and beyond. Thrones could invite the special ire of enemies, but perhaps a few of them were “deactivated” in ritual manner, to be processed in ways like this example from Palenque?

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